Comments on: Dear Dave Ramsey, http://doyoudaveramsey.com/dear-dave-ramsey/ Practical ◦ Entertaining ◦ Personal ◦ Finance Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:45:02 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Dave Ozment http://doyoudaveramsey.com/dear-dave-ramsey/comment-page-1/#comment-70 Dave Ozment Sun, 01 Mar 2009 03:40:49 +0000 http://doyoudaveramsey.com/?p=691#comment-70 Interesting commentary Bunker (too many "Dave's" in this conversation) and thanks for jumping in. I won't defend Ramsey - he surely doesn't need my puny voice, but I'll contribute my 2 cents. I spent some time considering my response and I think I'll do best by first asking for a clarification as to your true position on the matter. You seem to have strong stance against the strength of the individual, calling Ramsey's individualized approach problematic on a larger scale. However, in your post recent blog post - linked from your comment - you offer the pearl "We are world citizens after we are neighbors". Following this strand, we are then individuals before we are neighbors. You continue your eloquent prose with 4 beautify crafted paragraphs (you truly are a talented writer) focused on the importance of getting out of debt. If one knew no better, one might mistake you for Ramsey's Harvard educated older brother. It seems I find myself agreeing more with your opinion circa November 30, 2008 than I do today. I firmly believe in the biblical principle of taking care of our own household first. It is at this point that I can best help others. But what if everyone believed and practiced this ideal? If everyone managed their 'economy of one' then the local and national and global economies would only benefit. I believe this idea transcends demographics. I also firmly believe in the responsibility of the individual regardless of their circumstances. That is not to say that some will still require assistance but let's focus that energy on those who truly "can't" rather than on all of those who simply "won't". Micro and Marco have an interesting relationship. In trying to wrap my final point I've only come to appreciate this even moreso. You offer that Ramsey's approach is too individualized yet ask what I, as an individual, am doing to help my individual neighbor. I would counter than everyone doing the best for themselves would prove bouyant to the larger economy yet this ingores true pockets - urban or rurual - of individuals still requiring assistance. So is there a balance and where does it reside? Frankly, I believe you beat me to the answer many months ago - Put our own house in order as inidividuals then together we'll treat our local community and only then can we aspire to achieve nationally or even globally. This road map and these principles are timeless and cross ethical or political or even most favored talk-show host lines. Dave Bunker, thanks for contributing this evening. I've enjoyed putting my thoughts down on this matter. I simply hope I did so in a logical and constructive manner. I hope you'll visit again and continue to keep me on my toes. Dave Ozment Interesting commentary Bunker (too many “Dave’s” in this conversation) and thanks for jumping in. I won’t defend Ramsey – he surely doesn’t need my puny voice, but I’ll contribute my 2 cents. I spent some time considering my response and I think I’ll do best by first asking for a clarification as to your true position on the matter.

You seem to have strong stance against the strength of the individual, calling Ramsey’s individualized approach problematic on a larger scale. However, in your post recent blog post – linked from your comment – you offer the pearl “We are world citizens after we are neighbors”. Following this strand, we are then individuals before we are neighbors. You continue your eloquent prose with 4 beautify crafted paragraphs (you truly are a talented writer) focused on the importance of getting out of debt. If one knew no better, one might mistake you for Ramsey’s Harvard educated older brother.

It seems I find myself agreeing more with your opinion circa November 30, 2008 than I do today. I firmly believe in the biblical principle of taking care of our own household first. It is at this point that I can best help others. But what if everyone believed and practiced this ideal?

If everyone managed their ‘economy of one’ then the local and national and global economies would only benefit. I believe this idea transcends demographics. I also firmly believe in the responsibility of the individual regardless of their circumstances. That is not to say that some will still require assistance but let’s focus that energy on those who truly “can’t” rather than on all of those who simply “won’t”.

Micro and Marco have an interesting relationship. In trying to wrap my final point I’ve only come to appreciate this even moreso. You offer that Ramsey’s approach is too individualized yet ask what I, as an individual, am doing to help my individual neighbor. I would counter than everyone doing the best for themselves would prove bouyant to the larger economy yet this ingores true pockets – urban or rurual – of individuals still requiring assistance.

So is there a balance and where does it reside? Frankly, I believe you beat me to the answer many months ago – Put our own house in order as inidividuals then together we’ll treat our local community and only then can we aspire to achieve nationally or even globally. This road map and these principles are timeless and cross ethical or political or even most favored talk-show host lines.

Dave Bunker, thanks for contributing this evening. I’ve enjoyed putting my thoughts down on this matter. I simply hope I did so in a logical and constructive manner. I hope you’ll visit again and continue to keep me on my toes.

Dave Ozment

]]> By: Dave Bunker http://doyoudaveramsey.com/dear-dave-ramsey/comment-page-1/#comment-69 Dave Bunker Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:05:15 +0000 http://doyoudaveramsey.com/?p=691#comment-69 Dave Ramsey's highly individualized fiscal regimen is more than problematic on a macro level. It encourages whole segments of Christian enclaves to allow their values and ethics to be formed by a theological sacramentalzing of capitalism. He stirs up sentiments that are increasingly anti-govermental (i.e. he speaks of Obama and leaders with a high degree of arrogance and flippancy regarding highly complex issues), antiwelfare,( he places responsiblities for all financial problems on the isolated person nuclear family) anti-urban,(the assumption that cities need less help from the government rather than more) which ultimately reflects a great indifference to and ignorance of racial justice) which all points to how disengaged from the troubles of the world this guy is. This is not a biblical understanding of economics but a highly selfish and personalized sense of economic freedom. I.E. I will help you when I get my life together. In the meantime...sorry! He should see if his teaching works in the inner city or in parts of the country where entire towns have been wiped out by corporate greed. Obviously I take a much harsher read on the financial advice of the regressive Dave Ramsey. I am glad you are out of debt. Now...how about your neighbor? Not responsible for him? Yeah...that is what I thought. <abbr><em>Dave Bunker’s last blog post..<a href="http://subversiveorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2008/11/putting-our-own-house-in-order_30.html" rel="nofollow">Putting Our Own House in Order</a></abbr></em> Dave Ramsey’s highly individualized fiscal regimen is more than problematic on a macro level. It encourages whole segments of Christian enclaves to allow their values and ethics to be formed by a theological sacramentalzing of capitalism. He stirs up sentiments that are increasingly anti-govermental (i.e. he speaks of Obama and leaders with a high degree of arrogance and flippancy regarding highly complex issues), antiwelfare,( he places responsiblities for all financial problems on the isolated person nuclear family) anti-urban,(the assumption that cities need less help from the government rather than more) which ultimately reflects a great indifference to and ignorance of racial justice) which all points to how disengaged from the troubles of the world this guy is. This is not a biblical understanding of economics but a highly selfish and personalized sense of economic freedom. I.E. I will help you when I get my life together. In the meantime…sorry! He should see if his teaching works in the inner city or in parts of the country where entire towns have been wiped out by corporate greed. Obviously I take a much harsher read on the financial advice of the regressive Dave Ramsey. I am glad you are out of debt. Now…how about your neighbor? Not responsible for him? Yeah…that is what I thought.

Dave Bunker’s last blog post..Putting Our Own House in Order

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